Harlock Hero ([info]harlockhero) wrote,
@ 2008-01-15 21:35:00
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MODELS OF CONSCIOUSNESS
Rinku was talking to me lately and told me about how he had read in those Radical Honesty books about a new theoretical model for the stages of consciousness that one progresses through. I like the system a lot, it's better than the previous model of consciousness (Ken Wilbur's) that I thought to be the most accurate. It seems to describe most people I know rather well, but one must realize that people don't tend to conform to any one of the levels, but rather a combination of levels with one being the dominant or primary one. In order, they are:

Level I - Beliefs

This is people who are stuck in the abstracts of their beliefs: fundamentalists, Christians, Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Conservatives, any one who forms their opinions entirely by the "party line" but can't really tell you what those beliefs mean when practiced in reality, or whose behavior doesn't fall in line with those beliefs. Basically, someone with no grasp of reality, who exists only in concepts.

Level II - Social Contracts

This is people who (often only temporarily, or when convenient) set aside their beliefs from Level I for the sake of surviving, endearing themselves to others, forming friendships, making contracts, deals, or promises, etc.

Level III - Ego / Saint

This is the kind of person who says "Everyone's an idiot but me!"; someone who thinks of themselves as an ubermensch before whom nothing can stand. As rinku said, a Muhammad Ali type figure, someone who thinks of nothing but their own ideas and divorces them from the context of the world outside. Most teenagers I know reside here, as well as most artists.

Level IV - Philosopher / Charlatan

This is the kind of person who has set aside the ego of Level III as "childish" and who wants to help others using what they perceive as their own wisdom. The word philosopher seems to be juxtaposed with charlatan, because the belief systems of these people are usually false, even if borne of good intentions. For example, priests who want to help others would fall here, and literal Saints. So would idiots who want to be Bodhisattvas!

Level V - DESPAIR!

This is where one realizes that the universe is meaningless, there is no God, no purpose to anything, and nothing but death and oblivion awaiting, no matter what actions we take to forestall it. Everything from I-IV crumbles when confronted with this.

Level VI - SUICIDAL PANIC!!

This is when one realizes that even the realizations of Level V, the railing against nihilism and pointlessness is itself useless, and sees how truly bleak and pointless the void actually is, when the philosophizing ends. To escape from this stage, there are three options: run screaming back to levels I-IV (what most people do according to the book), commit suicide, or advance to the final stage...

Level VII - The Here and Now

In this level, people achieve a Zen-like state of moment-conscious living, focusing on each thing as it arises and then letting it go, perceiving reality directly with the senses, without the filter of opinion, judgment, or conceptualization. As rinku says, there is only "suchness"; one identifies and groups things not by the common categories, but by the sensory essence. To simplify, "chair" is defined not as having 3-4 legs and being made of wood or something senseless like that, but rather as the sensation of being seated. In this way, the ground or the edge of a bed or a sidewalk curb can be said to have "chairness". This seems simple, but applied to ALL THINGS, implies a very strong overhaul of the entirety of one's consciousness and way of thinking.

--

My own thoughts are that I'm still not convinced that the Here and Now phase isn't just reverting to Level III, only this time making it go down nicer by simply negating the existence of other people altogether. Rather than saying "other people are stupid", it seems like one now just says "elsewhere, there are atoms of carbon, colliding by chance. let's see what they do today," while remaining just as insulated as the Ego / Saint.

I also think there should be a Level 0, for those whose personality is ruled by subconscious impulses and urges, those people who do what feels or seems right or good, moment to moment, with nothing to unify it all together. The "BEAST" level.

One thing to point out, and this is the thing that makes this model pretty unique, is that it places the pondering of abstracts on the lowest level, and leaves direct, physical interaction with concrete things for the highest of levels. Usually, this is thought of as being the opposite way around; it's dullards who have to dig ditches and geniuses who just sit around all day talking about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

For the record, I place myself in a constant state of oscillation between Philosopher / Charlatan and SUICIDAL PANIC.



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[info]katoki
2008-01-16 03:02 am UTC (link)
You're offline, so I'll just say that I find this model really interesting and that you should email me the Ken Wilbur's model to look over if you get the time or inclination.

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[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 03:04 am UTC (link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_dynamics

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[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 03:06 am UTC (link)
Oh, and just for my own interest, where would you classify yourself?

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[info]katoki
2008-01-16 03:22 am UTC (link)
Off the top of my head and without real serious thought, and probably being self effacing, at this time...A little bit of your proposed level 0 and some level 3.
But the question is, where do you think I would be classified as?

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[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 03:27 am UTC (link)
All levels exist in everyone, so if you're just asking for dominants: 2 and 3.

Percent-wise, I'd say something like:
0: 10%
1: 5%
2: 35%
3: 25%
4: 10%
5: 15%
6: 0%
7: 0%

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[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 03:27 am UTC (link)
Oh, and because I ranked you, you have to rank me.

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[info]katoki
2008-01-16 04:51 am UTC (link)
Alright, just keep in mind that A) You got that newtype going on so you have a better insight into personalities then anyone I know and B) I'm just not intune, "withit" or well to put it plainly good at categorizing people.

0: 5%
1: 0%
2: 0%
3: 5%
4: 50%
5: 0%
6: 35%
7: 5%

Now, admittedly, I'm sure I'm wrong about all of them.
But you asked for it.

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[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 04:56 am UTC (link)
No, seems pretty accurate to me, if somewhat over-flattering.

The only thing I'm curious about is why you would have put points into 0, but not 2.

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[info]katoki
2008-01-16 05:03 am UTC (link)
Oversight.

Put 4 at 45% and put that five points at 2.

And yeah, it is a bit over flattering.

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[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 05:09 am UTC (link)
It stops being flattering if you admit it's flattery!!

Also, you didn't tell me whether or not you agreed with my assessment.

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[info]katoki
2008-01-16 05:13 am UTC (link)
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAH TRICK YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 05:15 am UTC (link)
Does not parse.

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[info]sashatheelf
2008-01-16 04:42 am UTC (link)
i like this entry

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[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 04:54 am UTC (link)
And I liked your babushka lady entry!

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[info]charbile
2008-01-16 06:16 am UTC (link)
Level 7 does sound like level 3.

I think the problem of these models are in how they attempt to track something internal, like consciousness or awareness, by evaluating external things like how one responds or interacts with others, which leads to the uncertainty you've noticed because two people of two different levels can both have similar behavior.

Which of course follows into how you and Rinku (seemingly always) take it as one has all levels to varying degrees, or bounces to and forth, which just comes across as watering down the intention of these models.

A more useful, possibly more accurate model might be to document the development of your own consciousness from the time before the first time you can remember having thought (earliest memory) to where you believe you are headed. Maybe not as immediately fun as placing yourself into other's models, but more interesting. (to me.)

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[info]rinku
2008-01-16 12:59 pm UTC (link)
Level 7 is completely different from level 3, you'd probably have to buy the book to read its more extensive descriptions. But as a summary, level 7 is much more about being in the present moment and enjoying sensory awareness and existence, whereas in level 3 everything revolves around the person, they are gravely upset by any insult and are aglow with warmth at every praise, they are much more narcissistic, whereas in level 7 those reactions, while still probably present, aren't the focus of attention and are much more easily dismissed as unimportant trivialities in comparison to simple wonder that such people exist, and praise and insult alike are just beautiful to witness as manifestations of existence.

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[info]wynand
2008-01-16 11:34 am UTC (link)
I hate fuckin' levels of anything: why is there this need for grand numerical narratives to govern our lives? When you get to level 7, do you just say like--"Okay, guess I win at life!" If you haven't had a moment of soul-destroying nihilism--or rather, if you just innately believe in the void and you don't find it terrifying, if you've believed in it all your life--are you what, exempted from the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN that is NUMBER SEVEN?

Why can't we all just have full libraries of highly inefficient metaphors--curios, knick-knacks, anecdotes--that we all pull out and show to one another at infrequent coffee parties? If someone can tell me three good anecdotes about their life over coffee I know they know what life actually is. (You can do this harlock you know this you don't need me to say this)

I hate models. I do not want to think about America's Next Top Model of consciousness (though I would love to see such a show produced; can you imagine)

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[info]rinku
2008-01-16 01:06 pm UTC (link)
"know they know what life actually is" is just as exclusive and labeling as this model.

Besides, everyone knows what life is, they just know it differently. Some people know that life really is about abstractions and beliefs and fighting a moral crusade, some people know that life is really about that nothing ultimately matters when you die, and so on.

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You want this too
[info]miraclejones
2008-01-16 01:15 pm UTC (link)
Look, if we don't have a good model of consciousness that can completely reduce humans to components of arithmetical analysis, how are we going to build robots to take the place of poor people for the army and service sector, and cut them off from existential panic?

Do you really want a robot without a religion?

A religion where YOU are a sacred object who must be protected and made French fries at a reasonable speed?

I want this. I want to have my very own Charlatanbot, to gently wake me up every morning with a cup of coffee and cluck his tongue at my silly, NUMBER SEVEN ways (that's right).

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Re: You want this too
[info]harlockhero
2008-01-16 01:27 pm UTC (link)
Would the two of you think me any less foolish if I said that even if I were to totally subscribe to this model's validity, I don't view it as some sort of progression to an ultimate state of mind (LEVEL VII)? In fact, Level VII seems like the kind of place where I couldn't exist. If anything, I like the blissful, self-knowing defiance of Level IV. It's not as if I think this is the STAIRWAY TO GOD or something.

Oh yeah, and models are pretty much inevitable, no matter how regrettable one might think they are! You can take people on a case by case basis, sure, but at some point you have to start forming categories and drawing generalizations, right? RIGHT? :(

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Re: You want this too
[info]gwillen
2008-01-16 08:47 pm UTC (link)
For some reason the end of this comment sounds in my head like the ending of the line in "It's the End of the World as We Know It" which goes "Symbiotic, patriotic, [unintelligible], right? Right."

That irrelevance aside, I feel like I'm pretty comfortable in what seems (in terms of belief) like level V, but generally lacks the accompanying despair, being replaced with a sort of resigned acceptance. Where would you classify that? (I'm also not too clear on the difference between V and VI except in magnitude...)

Edited at 2008-01-16 08:48 pm UTC

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Re: You want this too
[info]miraclejones
2008-01-17 12:39 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, but at the point where you start generalizing and categorizing, that is the exact point that you are being crude and unscientific. Which is cool, which is cool. You DO it, to eat and persist, but now you are doing psychology, or sociology, or economics.

AND PHYSICISTS ARE LAUGHING AT YOU WITH SEXIES UNDER EACH ARM

And artists are shaking you down for your grant money at bars.

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[info]bastardzero
2008-01-16 01:59 pm UTC (link)
Word.

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[info]bastardzero
2008-01-16 02:05 pm UTC (link)
But then, what do I know? I'm terrible at abstract thought because I don't read enough.

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[info]newedition
2008-02-08 02:55 am UTC (link)
This looks VERY good... I want to spend some time on it before responding; sending email to self to remind myself to read it soon.

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